IMO Jay-Z > 2Pac
|08-20-2012, 01:01 AM||online - #2|
Better discography, flow, beats, more cla#sics, etc.
Jay-Z is a legend, top 5, but Kanye West got this on lock.
|08-20-2012, 01:02 AM||away - #3|
|08-20-2012, 01:25 AM||away - #4|
jay-z would tell u otherwise
|08-20-2012, 01:59 AM||online - #5|
Okay , let's break this down....
Flow : I'll give you that
Beats: I'm[..]uming you mean ear for beats, dont know really how much this should matter but I'll entertain it anyway. To me it's a toss up , Reasonable Doubt beats were crack but then from Vol 1 up until Dyn@sty the majority of the tracks on those 4 albums had mediocre beats. Blueprint, Black Album, and AG all had mostly dope beats, but BP2, Kingdom Come, and Blueprint 3 had mostly mediocre beats. That's only 4 out 11 albums where the MAJORITY of the beats were dope overall. That's only about 36% or roughly a third of his catalog. Jay is just lucky IMO that he ran into people like Kanye and Just Blaze to be in-house while recognizing what the Neptunes and Timbo were doing when they were already heating up. Just check out this past thread.
Cla#sics : I remember in another thread you thought Jay had 5 cla#sics which is a VERY rare opinion. Most people would only agree on 2 to 3. I remember you said Volume 1 was a cla#sic. That's also a VERY rare opinion. As far as Pac goes, most people would argue he also has 2 to 3 cla#sics. So it's a pretty close toss up as well there.
Discography ?? Isn't this pretty similar to Cla#sics ?? either way Pac's overall catalog is just as good if not better than Jay's IMO. There was even a thread I made asking which GOAT had the most filler in their catalog. Most people voted Eminem first, then Jay second while Pac and Nas were last.
So out of all those things you've named, I can only really give you flow.
Now let's get to what Pac was better at.
Pac had better Content, Delivery, Hooks, and Versatility IMO.
Pac's versatility still to this day is unmatched
dude could crank out introspective stuff like I Aint Mad At Cha , Only God Can Judge Me, Wonder If Heaven Got A Ghetto, So Many Tears, Life Goes On then turn around and give you commercial club bangers like I get Around, How Do U Want It, Ratha Be Ya nicca, California Love then turn around and give you conscious stuff like Keep Ya Head Up, Dear Mama, Wonder why They Call U Bytch, Brenda's Got A Baby then turn around again and give you the Gangsta Shyt like Hit Em Up, b0mb First, Ambitionz Az A Ridah, Troublesome 96, etc.
dude's range of versatility was untouchable.
and Pac achieved everything he did by the age of 25
Jay didn't even get in the game until 26
Imagine if Pac had actually lived ........
I'll give Jay Flow
but Pac gets Content, Delivery, Hooks, and Versatility.
Last edited by psylence2k; 08-20-2012 at 02:01 AM..
|08-20-2012, 02:06 AM||away - #6|
TUPAC GOAT hands down.
|08-20-2012, 02:11 AM||away - #7|
Jay-Z has a better discography than 2Pac. Aside from Me Against the World and k#lluminati, he had 1 strong album and 2 good albums. Jay-Z had his best within a 7 year window so who the hell even cares about age.
2Pac is not the most versatile rapper. I've never heard anyone even say that before. He did cover a wide-range of topics but not always in a credible manner.
Technically, I've never heard anyone put 2Pac on a big level. As a technical rapper Jay-Z has it hands down. Only thing 2Pac has is lyrics, but Jay-Z has a much better voice to his.
|08-20-2012, 02:30 AM||online - #8|
similar to what we both said, alot of people will say Jay has 2 to 3, alot of people will say Pac has 2 to 3.
That's aside from our own opinions, that's just common consensus.
the age statement was just me touching on how incredible it was that Pac achieved everything he did before Jay even entered the game. His WHOLE career was less than 5 years. Like you said, Jay dropped 2-3 Cla#sics over a 7 year period. Pac dropped his 2-3 cla#sics in less than two years.
You've never heard anyone say Pac was one of the most IF not the most versatile rapper ?? You are pretty new to Boxden so ....... You better just get use to that notion because it's common.
He didn't cover a wide range of topics in a credible manner ??
Well out of the 4 aspects I covered ( Introspective, Commercial, Conscious, Gangsta) he has undisputed all time cla#sics in each category. So how is that not credible ?? Like I said that's apart from your opinion or mine. That's a common notion.
From I Aint Mad At Cha to California Love to Dear Mama to Hit Em Up, he covers every base across the full spectrum and has UNDISPUTED cla#sics from every angle. How is that not credible ??
Of course Jay was better technically, no one is gonna argue that, but like you said , Pac has him beat on Lyrics, isn't that the most important thing ???
and Jay has a better voice than Pac ?? you should really do a thread and poll on that and see what you get. I can almost guarantee you'll be in the minority. Even Jay said he hates his own voice and that he thinks he sounds like a little kid.
|08-20-2012, 02:36 AM||away - #9|
Impressive what Pac did, tbh.
What I mean is that anybody can rap about different subjects. Even Jay-Z has done that. But neither are amazing at doing an extreme range of topics. A respectable level but not something to brag about.
2Pac has him beat on lyrics, but GZA is the GOAT lyricist yet I see no one calling him the GOAT.
I mean that Jay-Z voices his lyrics better (flow, delivery, overall, etc.).
|08-20-2012, 02:41 AM||online - #10|
but I really dont know how you can say Pac wasn't great at doing an extreme range of topics.
How would you explain him having so many cla#sic songs across that wide range then ??
Plenty rappers have tried to do it but no one else has cla#sics in every subject category like Pac does. The songs I named aren't personal cla#sics or Pac fan cla#sics those are recognized as Hip-Hop cla#sics. If you cla#sic songs all over that wide range how is that NOT amazing ?? Who else has done that ??
|08-20-2012, 02:41 AM||online - #11|
Pac is one of the most versatile but so is jay, wash.
Age argument does nothing but try to see into the future, pac could have very easily quit rap and been more of an actor.
I think he was talking about just the gangsta topic. [pic]
So does jay in all 4 of those. wash.
technical skill is part of lyrics I don't think pac's lyrics are > jay's. I would say it is closer to even or on jay's side.
jay doesn't have a better voice. But he has a better flow and delivery.[pic]
|08-20-2012, 02:49 AM||away - #12|
And neither Jay-Z or 2Pac are GOATS in versatility. ANYONE can make songs about different things. How you gon say 2Pac is a GOAT in versatility? He was good at that but he didn't touch an EXTREME amount of topics. Many of them were the same.
Not saying 2Pac didn't have versatility but let's not overrate him in that aspect.
|08-20-2012, 02:49 AM||online - #13|
How is Jay as versatile as Pac ??
Jay has never done cla#sic songs in the same vein as Dear Mama, Brenda's Got a Baby, Keep ya Head up, Wonder Why They Call U Bytch, etc.
everything Jay writes is centered around HIM
HIS Money, HIS Ego, HIS Drug Dealing.
Pac wrotes songs about OTHER people and OTHER perspectives as well as his own ALL THE TIME and he still made those songs cla#sic songs.
Jay mostly sticks to his own story.
Last edited by psylence2k; 08-20-2012 at 02:54 AM..
|08-20-2012, 02:52 AM||online - #14|
Anyone can make songs about different things sure.
but you're failing to acknowledge that Pac has CLa#sICS in all those subjects.
Who else has MULTIPLE cla#sics in DISTINCTLY different song categories ??
Pac made a CAREER out of versatility. That was what he was known for.
Just watch Pac interviews or Pac documentaries.
Pac's range of subject matter was his Hallmark, That's not my opinion , that's a very common consensus. Everyone knows this.
It's like he was 10 different people, why do think they called him bi-polar or Mr. Duality ?? it's because it was hard to grasp that the same man doing Keep Ya Head Up or Dear Mama could turn around and do Hit Em Up and How Do U Want It. Do your research man, Pac was a legend for his versatility. Just watch documentaries of other artists and celebrities speaking about it.
Last edited by psylence2k; 08-20-2012 at 03:02 AM..
|08-20-2012, 02:54 AM||online - #15|
set the most trends
and his interviews are hotter
times have changed if you want a big single you aren't going to get that off half of pacs singles including the ones you named.
|08-20-2012, 03:00 AM||online - #16|
nice jay staning but funny thing about that Jay quote is :
Pac actually had better charisma, interviews, and story telling. [pic]
and being that Pac's best work was three albums in a row right before he died ??
Imma have to take that most consistent too then. [pic]
Oh and how you gonna try to discredit the age argument with the "see into the future" criticism but you want to act like you know how good Pac would be at putting out hits if he existed in a different era ???
Last edited by psylence2k; 08-20-2012 at 03:04 AM..
|08-20-2012, 03:06 AM||away - #17|
Nas is better than 2Pac in versatility. His versatility is something to be praised. 2Pac had versatility but not on that type of level.
|08-20-2012, 03:07 AM||away - #18|
If this dumba#s thread go past 2 pages I'm laughing
Pac should only be compared to rappers that have
Music in the library of Congress
over 70 million albums sold
90 percent of rappers bitting off them
No wack albums
3 cla#sic albums
Win every poll that ask who the best rapper of all time is
And they have to be talked about everyday 15 years after there [rip]
Until then pac should only be compared to elvis, Michael Jackson and other artist that are celebrated worldwide [pic]
Last edited by Kingpin 313; 08-20-2012 at 03:10 AM..
|08-20-2012, 03:08 AM||online - #19|
You're entitled to your opinion.
but at least acknowledge that PUBLIC opinion of the majority is that Pac was versatile like no other.
if you dont believe me , like I said, go watch some old 90's segments on people speaking about Pac.
|08-20-2012, 03:09 AM||online - #20|
Being consistent doesn't mean 3 in a row, that means he was consistent for 3 albums.
I didn't act like I know, because it's almost set in stone a song won't reach the target audience a label is looking for like brendas got a baby, because it didn't even do that back then. If you want top 10 singles you aren't gonna get that with the majority of pac's singles, which is a sad thing but that is what hip hop has come to. If you actually think otherwise, I think you need to open your eyes.
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