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Dec 22 - Michael Moore: Racial Fear Drives Gun Obsession


 Dec 22 - Michael Moore: Racial Fear Drives Gun Obsession
 12-26-2012, 04:53 PMonline - #101
Decan45 

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Originally Posted by GST
because blacks are the reason a second party was even created...the first party didn't hate black ppl enough...blood was spilled in a war trying to keep us down...so when since we become so irrelevant in american politics now all of a sudden ?
A second party? Brother, there has always been multiple parties. There's more than two today, in fact. Unfortunately our brain dead society can't seem to take that fact seriously, so we get stuck in the same paradigm every four years.

I don't understand the bold. Run that by me again, if you would.
 12-26-2012, 04:55 PMaway - #102
nightmare 416 heat pts416

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Not sure I follow. How does the fact that I had a good feeling that you were going to twist what I said about peoples' love of the 2nd amendment being partly about heritage and tradition into some tongue-in-cheek joke about slavery, say anything about me?
because you are lumping me into a category even though i clarified my stance

Again, another amendment that will always be upheld due to it being an integral part of our identity as a nation of many cultures. (Regardless of what it was at the time of colonialism.)
we'll see (and that goes from all the amendments)

Sure you say that, but then you only entertain and co-sign people who are obviously much more staunchly affixed in their radical position that gun ownership boils down to fear of minorities.
yea i say that, and im agree with specific points in their posts that i agree with

I absolutely can if the evidence is in my favor. The onus is on you to prove otherwise. From the get go, this entire thread was predicated on the outlandish, out-of-thin-air, just-pulled-it-out-of-my-fat-ass opinion of Micheal Moore.
you clearly have a strong bias against moore, even though he says #### that legit, not saying everything he says is legit, but he makes lots of legit points IMO

The bolded was a tongue-in-cheek reference to the fact that white people are constantly doing crazy #### with complete reckless abandon, and complete disregard for safety and consequences. Climb mountains, jump out of planes, #### with wild animals, swim around in the ocean, conquer nations, colonize the world, etc...

Apparently that went over your head.
i was supposed to be able to tell that on the internet AND not knowing you or how you speak?
 12-26-2012, 04:59 PMaway - #103
nightmare 416 heat pts416

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Not at all. It just so happens to be that most of the people in the thread who subscribe to Micheal Moore's horse#### opinion on the subject, are black and are talking exclusively about black people.
we'll im not, im speaking holistically

That is not in any way evidence that gun advocates' support for the 2nd amendment is predicated on race tensions. Also, are you aware of how many firearms are legally purchased by Latinos in this country? White people don't give a ####.
i never said that the 2nd amendment is predicated on those grounds

i said that there are people who fear those factors and they use gun ownership as a emotional buffer against that. im not saying theres some big conspiracy, im simply saying that they are people who fear the future and they cling to their guns as a hopeful stop-gap toward these changes, thats independent of the 2nd amendment in itself
 12-26-2012, 05:02 PMonline - #104
Decan45 

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Originally Posted by nightmare
because you are lumping me into a category even though i clarified my stance
Not trying to.

Originally Posted by nightmare
we'll see (and that goes from all the amendments)
This is that paranoia I'm talking about. Come on, now...

Originally Posted by nightmare
you clearly have a strong bias against moore, even though he says #### that legit, not saying everything he says is legit, but he makes lots of legit points IMO
Not at all. The man and I have a lot to agree on. In this particular instance however, we're dealing with a guy who is absolutely anti-anything-gun-related, pulling something right out of his a$s because it's controversial and teaming with sensational shock value. I think it's ####ing retarded to give it any credence, just because it's controversial in nature. What dude said was completely irresponsible.

Originally Posted by nightmare
i was supposed to be able to tell that on the internet AND not knowing you or how you speak?
Meh, whatever...
 12-26-2012, 05:02 PMaway - #105
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Originally Posted by Decan45
The discrepancy here is that you're a$suming that whom these people feel they're losing their country to, is black people. The reality is that they're very well aware of the fact that it's predominately liberal WHITE people who are their opposition. What do black people have to do with it? This whole anti-gun debate flared up again because a scrawny little, whiny, disturbed, dorky a$s white boy shot a bunch of other little white kids. Gun advocates are well aware of this. Where do black people factor into this? The statement that this debate is only perpetuated because of the white man's fear of black people, is so ridiculously egotistical and ####ing stupid, that it's literally a joke to me. It's a joke to anybody with any kind of realistic sensibilities. White people want their right to bear arms, because they feel it's their inalienable right to the responsibility to protect themselves and their loved ones from all threats, both foreign and domestic. White people's di#ks get hard when you read them the 2nd amendment. It's the novelty of it. It's the concept in and of itself. It has nothing to do with the fear of a war with black people.
Year Jurisdiction Statute
1640 Virginia Race-based total gun and self-defense ban. “Prohibiting Negroes, slave and free, from carrying weapons including clubs.” (Los Angeles Times, To f!ght Crime, Some Blacks Attack Gun Control, January 19, 1992)

1640 Virginia Race-based total gun ban. “That all such free Mulattos, Negroes and Indians … shall appear without arms.” [7 The Statues at Large; Being a Collection of all the Laws of Virginia, from the First Session of the Legislature, in the Year 1619, p. 95 (W. W. Henning ed. 1823).] (GMU CR LJ, p. 67)

1712 Virginia Race-based total gun ban. “An Act for Preventing Negroes Insurrections.” (Henning, p. 481) (GMU CR LJ, p. 70)

1712 South Carolina Race-based total gun ban. “An act for the better ordering and governing of Negroes and slaves.” [7 Statutes at Large of South Carolina, p. 353-54 (D. J. McCord ed. 1836-1873).] (GMU CR LJ, p. 70)

1791 United States 2nd Amendment to the U. S. Constitution ratified. Reads: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

1792 United States Blacks excluded from the militia, i.e. law-abiding males thus instilled with the right to own guns. Uniform Militia Act of 1792 “called for the enrollment of every free, able-bodied white male citizen between the ages of eighteen and forty-five” to be in the militia, and specified that every militia member was to “provide himself with a musket or firelock, a bayonet, and ammunition.” [1 Stat. 271 (Georgetown Law Journal, Vol. 80, No. 2, “The Second Amendment: Toward an Afro-Americanist Reconsideration,” Robert Cottrol and Raymond Diamond, 1991, p. 331)]

1806 Louisiana Complete gun and self-defense ban for slaves. Black Code, ch. 33, Sec. 19, Laws of La. 150, 160 (1806) provided that a slave was denied the use of firearms and all other offensive weapons. (GLJ, p. 337)

1811 Louisiana Complete gun ban for slaves. Act of Apr. 8, 1811, ch. 14, 1811 Laws of La. 50, 53-54, forbade sale or delivery of firearms to slaves. (Id.)

1819 South Carolina Master’s permission required for gun possession by slave. Act of Dec. 18, 1819,

1819 Acts of S. C. 28, 31 prohibited slaves outside the company of whites or without written permission from their master from using or carrying firearms unless they were hunting or guarding the master’s plantation. (Id.)

1825 Florida Slave and free black homes searched for guns for confiscation. “An Act to Govern Patrols,” 1825 Acts of Fla. 52, 55 - Section 8provided that white citizen patrols “shall enter into all Negro houses and suspected places, and search for arms and other offensive or improper weapons, and may lawfully seize and take away such arms, weapons, and ammunition …” Section 9 provided that a slave might carry a firearm under this statute either by means of the weekly renewable license or if “in the presence of some white person.” (Id.)

1828 Florida Free blacks permitted to carry guns if court approval. Act of Nov. 17, 1828 Sec. 9,

1828 Fla. Laws 174, 177; Act of Jan. 12, 1828, Sec. 9, 1827 Fla. Laws 97, 100 - Florida went back and forth on the question of licenses for free blacks; twice in 1828, Florida enacted provisions providing for free blacks to carry and use firearms upon obtaining a license from a justice of the peace. (Id.)

1831 Florida Race-based total gun ban. Act of Jan. 1831, 1831 Fla. Laws 30 - Florida repealed all provision for firearm licenses for free blacks. (Id. p. 337-38)

1831 Delaware Free blacks permitted to carry guns if court approval. In the December 1831 legislative session, Delaware required free blacks desiring to carry firearms to obtain a license from a justice of the peace. [Herbert Aptheker, Nat Turner’s Slave Rebellion, p. 74-75 (1966).](GLJ, p. 338)

1831 Maryland Race-based total gun ban. In the December 1831 legislative session, Maryland entirely prohibited free blacks from carrying arms. (Aptheker, p. 75) (GLJ, p. 338)

1831 Virginia Race-based total gun ban. In the December 1831 legislative session, Virginia entirely prohibited free blacks from carrying arms. (Aptheker, p. 81) (GLJ, p. 338)

1833 Florida Slave and free black homes searched for guns for confiscation. Act of Feb. 17, 1833, ch. 671, Sec. 15, 17, 1833 Fla. Laws 26, 29 authorized white citizen patrols to seize arms found in the homes of slaves and free blacks, and provided that blacks without a proper explanation for the presence of the firearms be summarily punished, without benefit of a judicial tribunal. (Id. p. 338)

1833 Georgia Race-based total gun ban. Act of Dec. 23, 1833, Sec. 7, 1833 Ga. Laws 226, 228 declared that “it shall not be lawful for any free person of colour in this state, to own, use, or carry fire arms of any description whatever.” (Id.)

1840 Florida Complete gun ban for slaves. Act of Feb. 25, 1840, no. 20, Sec. 1, 1840 Acts of Fla. 22-23 made sale or delivery of firearms to slaves forbidden. (Id. p. 337)

1840 Texas Complete gun ban for slaves. “An Act Concerning Slaves,” Sec. 6, 1840 Laws of Tex. 171, 172, ch. 58 of the Texas Acts of 1850 prohibited slaves from using firearms altogether from

1842-1850. (Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Northwestern University, Vol. 85, No. 3, “Gun Control and Economic Discrimination: The Melting-Point Case-In-Point”, T. Markus Funk, 1995, p. 797)

1844 North Carolina Race-based gun ban upheld because free blacks “not citizens.” In State v. Newsom, 27 N. C. 250 (1844), the Supreme Court of North Carolina upheld a Slave Code law prohibiting free blacks from carrying firearms on the grounds that they were not citizens. (GMU CR LJ, p. 70)

1845 North Carolina Complete gun ban for slaves. Act of Jan. 1, 1845, ch. 87, Sec. 1, 2, 1845 Acts of N. C. 124 made sale or delivery of firearms to slaves forbidden. (GLJ, p. 337)

1847 Florida Slave and free black homes searched for guns for confiscation. Act of Jan. 6, 1847, ch. 87 Sec. 11, 1846 Fla. Laws 42, 44 provided that white citizen patrols might search the homes of blacks, both free and slave and confiscate arms held therein. (Id. p. 338)

1848 Georgia Race-based gun ban upheld because free blacks “not citizens.” In Cooper v. Savannah, 4 Ga. 68, 72 (1848), the Georgia Supreme Court ruled “free persons of color have never been recognized here as citizens; they are not entitled to bear arms, vote for members of the legislature, or to hold any civil office.” (GMU CR LJ, p. 70)

1852 Mississippi Race-based complete gun ban. Act of Mar. 15, 1852, ch. 206, 1852 Laws of Miss. 328 forbade ownership of firearms by both free blacks and slaves. (JCLC NWU, p. 797)
 12-26-2012, 05:03 PMaway - #106
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1857 United States High Court upholds slavery since blacks “not citizens.” In Dred Scott v. Sandford, 60 U. S. (19 How.) 393 (1857), Chief Justice Taney argued if members of the African race were “citizens” they would be exempt from the special “police regulations” applicable to them. “It would give to persons of the Negro race … full liberty of speech … to hold public meetings upon political affairs, and to keep and carry arms wherever they went.” (Id. p. 417) U. S. Supreme Court held that descendants of Africans who were imported into this country and sold as slaves were not included nor intended to be included under the word “citizens” in the Constitution, whether emancipated or not, and remained without rights or privileges except such as those which the government might grant them, thereby upholding slavery. Also held that a slave did not become free when taken into a free state; that Congress cannot bar slavery in any territory; and that blacks could not be citizens.

1860 Georgia Complete gun ban for slaves. Act of Dec. 19, 1860, no. 64, Sec. 1, 1860 Acts of Ga. 561 forbade sale or delivery of firearms to slaves. (GLJ, p. 337)

1861 United States Civil War begins.

1861 Florida Slave and free black homes searched for guns for confiscation. Act of Dec. 17, 1861, ch. 1291, Sec. 11, 1861 Fla. Laws 38, 40provided once again that white citizen patrols might search the homes of blacks, both free and slave, and confiscate arms held therein. (Id. p. 338)

1863 United States Emancipation Proclamation President Lincoln issued proclamation “freeing all slaves in areas still in rebellion.”

1865 Mississippi Blacks require police approval to own guns, unless in military. Mississippi Statute of

1865 prohibited blacks, not in the military“ and not licensed so to do by the board of police of his or her county” from keeping or carrying “fire-arms of any kind, or any ammunition, dirk or bowie knife.” [reprinted in 1 Documentary History of Reconstruction: Political, Military, Social, Religious, Educational and Industrial, 1865 to the Present Time, p. 291, Walter L. Fleming, ed., 1960.] (GLJ, p. 344)

1865 Louisiana Blacks require police and employer approval to own guns, unless in military. Louisiana Statute of 1865 prohibited blacks, not in the military service, from “carrying fire-arms, or any kind of weapons … without the special permission of his employers, approved and indorsed by the nearest and most convenient chief of patrol.” (Fleming, p. 280) (GLJ, p. 344)

1865 United States Civil War ends May 26.

1865 United States Slavery abolished as of December 18, 1865. 13th Amendment abolishing slavery was ratified. Reads: “Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or in any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.”

1866 Alabama Race-based total gun ban. Black Code of Alabama in January 1866 prohibited blacks to own or carry firearms or other deadly weapons and prohibited “any person to sell, give, or lend fire-arms or ammunition of any description whatever” to any black. [The Reconstruction Amendments’ Debates, p. 209, (Alfred Avins ed., 1967)] (GLJ, p. 345)

1866 North Carolina Rights of blacks can be changed by legislature. North Carolina Black Code, ch. 40, 1866 N. C. Sess. Laws 99 stated “All persons of color who are now inhabitants of this state shall be entitled to the same privileges, and are subject to the same burdens and disabilities, as by the laws of the state were conferred on, or were attached to, free persons of color, prior to the ordinance of emancipation, except as the same may be changed by law.” (Avins, p. 291.) (GLJ, p. 344)

1866 United States Civil Rights Act of 1866 enacted. CRA of 1866 did away with badges of slavery embodied in the “Black Codes,” including those provisions which “prohibit any Negro or mulatto from having fire-arms.” [CONG. GLOBE, 39th Congress, 1st Session, pt. 1, 474 (29 Jan. 1866)] Senator William Saulsbury (D-Del) added “In my State for many years … there has existed a law … which declares that free Negroes shall not have the possession of firearms or ammunition. This bill proposes to take away from the States this police power …” and thus voted against the bill. CRA of 1866 was a precursor to today’s 42 USC Sec. 1982, a portion of which still reads: “All citizens of the United States shall have the same right, in every state and territory, as is enjoyed by white citizens thereof to inherit, purchase, lease, sell, hold and convey real and personal property.”

1866 United States Proposed 14th Amendment to U. S. Constitution debated. Opponents of the 14th Amendment objected to its adoption because they opposed federal enforcement of the freedoms in the bill of rights. Senator Thomas A. Hendricks (D-Indiana) said “if this amendment be adopted we will then carry the title [of citizenship] and enjoy its advantages in common with the Negroes, the coolies, and the Indians.” [CONG. GLOBE, 39th Congress, 1st Session, pt. 3, 2939 (4 June 1866)]. Senator Reverdy Johnson, counsel for the slave owner in Dred Scott, opposed the amendment because “it is quite objectionable to provide that ‘no State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges and immunities of citizens of the United States’.” Thus, the 14th Amendment was viewed as necessary to buttress the Civil Rights Act of

1866, especially since the act “is pronounced void by the jurists and courts of the South,” e. g. Florida has as “a misdemeanor for colored men … and the punishment … is whipping …” [CONG GLOBE, 39th Con., 1st Session, 504, pt. 4, 3210 (16 June1866)].

1866 United States Klu Klux Klan formed. Purpose was to terrorize blacks who voted; temporarily disbanded in1871; reest@blished in 1915. In debating what would become 42 USC Sec. 1983, today’s federal civil rights statute, Representative Butler explained “This provision seemed to your committee to be necessary, because they had observed that, before these midnight marauders [the KKK] made attacks upon peaceful citizens, there were very many instances in the South where the sheriff of the county had preceded them and taken away the arms of their victims. This was especially noticeable in Union County, where all the Negro population were disarmed by the sheriff only a few months ago under the order of the judge … ; and then, the sheriff having disarmed the citizens, the five hundred masked men rode at nights and murd3red and otherwise maltreated the ten persons who were in jail in that county.” [1464 H. R. REP. No. 37, 41st Cong., 3rd Sess. p. 7-8 (20 Feb. 1871)]

1867 United States The Special Report of the Anti-Slavery Conference of 1867. Report noted with particular emphasis that under the Black Codes, blacks were “forbidden to own or bear firearms, and thus were rendered defenseless against a$saults.” (Reprinted in H. Hyman, The Radical Republicans and Reconstruction, p. 219, 1967.) (GMU CR LJ, p. 71)

1868 United States 14th Amendment to the U. S. Constitution adopted, conveying citizenship to blacks. Reads, in part: “Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.” “Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”

1870 Tennessee First “Saturday Night Special” economic handgun ban passed. In the first legislative session in which they gained control, white supremacists passed “An Act to Preserve the Peace and Prevent Homicide,” which banned the sale of all handguns except the expensive “Army and Navy model handgun” which whites already owned or could afford to buy, and blacks could not. (Gun Control: White Man’s Law, William R. Tonso, Reason, December 1985) Upheld in Andrews v. State, 50 Tenn. (3 Heisk.)165, 172 (1871) (GMU CR LJ, p. 74) “The cheap revolvers of the late 19th and early 20th centuries were referred to as ”$uicide Specials,“ the ”Saturday Night Special“ label not becoming widespread until reformers and politicians took up the gun control cause during the 1960s. The source of this recent concern about cheap revolvers, as their new label suggest, has much in common with the concerns of the gun-law initiators of the post-Civil War South. As B. Bruce-Briggs has written in the Public Interest, ”It is difficult to escape the conclusion that the “Saturday Night Special” is emphasized because it is cheap and being sold to a particular class of people. The name is sufficient evidence -- the reference is to “******town Saturday night.” (Gun Control: White Man’s Law,William R. Tonso, Reason, December 1985)

1871 United States Anti-KKK Bill debated in response to race-motivated violence in South. A report on violence in the South resulted in an anti-KKK bill that stated “That whoever shall, without due process of law, by violence, intimidation, or threats, take away or deprive any citizen of the United States of any arms or weapons he may have in his house or possession for the defense of his person, family, or property, shall be deemed guilty of a larceny thereof, and be punished as provided in this act for a felony.” [1464 H. R. REP. No. 37, 41st Cong., 3rd Sess. p. 7-8 (20 Feb. 1871)]. Since Congress doesn’t have jurisdiction over simple larceny, the language was removed from the anti-KKK bill, but this section survives today as 42 USC Sec.

1983: “That any person who, under color of any law, … of any State, shall subject, or cause to be subjected, any person … to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities to which … he is entitled under the Constitution … shall be liable … in any action at law … for redress … .”

1875 United States High Court rules has no power to stop KKK members from disarming blacks. In United States v. Cruikshank, 92 U. S. at 548-59 (1875) A member of the KKK, Cruikshank had been charged with violating the rights of two black men to peaceably a$semble and to bear arms. The U. S. Supreme Court held that the federal government had no power to protect citizens against private action (not committed by federal or state government authorities) that deprived them of their constitutional rights under the 14th Amendment. The Court held that for protection against private criminal action, individuals are required to look to state governments. “The doctrine in Cruikshank, that blacks would have to look to state government for protection against criminal conspiracies gave the green light to private forces, often with the a$sistance of state and local governments, that sought to subjugate the former slaves and … With the protective arm of the federal government withdrawn, protection of black lives and property was left to largely hostile state governments.” (GLJ, p. 348.)

1879 Tennessee Second “Saturday Night Special” economic handgun ban passed. Tennessee revamped its economic handgun ban nine years later, passing “An Act to Prevent the Sale of Pistols,” which was upheld in State v. Burgoyne, 75 Tenn. 173, 174 (1881). (GMU CR LJ, p. 74)

1882 Arkansas Third “Saturday Night Special” economic handgun ban passed. Arkansas followed Tennessee’s lead by enacting a virtually identical “Saturday Night Special” law banning the sale of any pistols other than expensive “army or navy” model revolvers, which most whites had or could afford, thereby disarming blacks. Statute was upheld in Dabbs v. State, 39 Ark. 353 (1882) (GMU CR LJ, p. 74)

1893 Alabama First all-gun economic ban passed. Alabama placed “extremely heavy business and/or transactional taxes“ on the sale of handguns in an attempt ”to put handguns out of the reach of blacks and poor whites.“ (Gun Control: White Man’s Law, William R. Tonso, Reason, December 1985)

1902 South Carolina First total civilian handgun ban. The state banned all pistol sales except to sheriffs and their special deputies, which included the KKK and company strongmen. (Kates, ”Toward a History of Handgun Prohibition in the United States“ in Restricting Handguns: The Liberal Skeptics Speak Out, p. 15, 1979.) (GMU CR LJ, p. 76)

1906 Mississippi Race-based confiscation through record-keeping. Mississippi enacted the first registration law for retailers in1906, requiring them to maintain records of all pistol and pistol ammunition sales, and to make such records available for inspection on demand. (Kates, p. 14) (GMU CR LJ, p. 75)

1907 Texas Fourth ”Saturday Night Special“ economic handgun ban. Placed ”extremely heavy business and/or transactional taxes” on the sale of handguns in an attempt “to put handguns out of the reach of blacks and poor whites.” (Gun Control: White Man’s Law, William R. Tonso, Reason, December 1985)

1911 New York Police choose who can own guns lawfully. “Sullivan Law” enacted, requiring police permission, via a permit issued at their discretion, to own a handgun. Unpopular minorities were and are routinely denied permits. (Gun Control: White Man’s Law, William R. Tonso, Reason, December 1985) “(T)here are only about 3, 000 permits in New York City, and 25, 000carry permits. If you’re a street-corner grocer in Manhattan, good luck getting a gun permit. But among those who have been able to wrangle a precious carry permit out of the city’s bureaucracy are Donald Trump, Arthur Ochs Sulzburger, William Buckley, Jr., and David, John, Lawrence and Winthrop Rockefeller. Surprise.” (Terrance Moran, Racism and the Firearms Firestorm, Legal Times)

1934 United States Gun Control Act of 1934 (National Firearms Act) passed.

1941 Florida Judge admits gun law passed to disarm black laborers. In concurring opinion narrowly construing a Florida gun control law passed in 1893, Justice Buford stated the 1893 law “was passed when there was a great influx of Negro laborers … The same condition existed when the Act was amended in 1901 and the Act was passed for the purpose of disarming the Negro laborers … The statute was never intended to be applied to the white population and in practice has never been so applied … .” Watson v. Stone, 148 Fla. 516, 524, 4 So. 2d 700, 703 (1941) (GMU CR LJ, p. 69)
 12-26-2012, 05:06 PMaway - #107
nightmare 416 heat pts416

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^^^^^ damn ni##a
 12-26-2012, 05:07 PMonline - #108
Decan45 

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Originally Posted by nightmare
i never said that the 2nd amendment is predicated on those grounds
Right... I didn't say the 2nd amendment itself. I said gun advocates support for it. Which IS explicitly what Micheal Moore is saying, and what you were corroborating earlier.

Originally Posted by nightmare
i said that there are people who fear those factors and they use gun ownership as a emotional buffer against that. im not saying theres some big conspiracy, im simply saying that they are people who fear the future and they cling to their guns as a hopeful stop-gap toward these changes, thats independent of the 2nd amendment in itself
Sure, there's also at least 3 people in the world who like to spread #### on their toast in the morning. What's your point though? Do you really think there's a significant demographic, whom like Mr. Moore is suggesting, only cling to their right to bear arms because they fear minorities? Or do you think that demographic is a relatively minuscule number that he is merely exaggerating, for the sake of being controversial?
 12-26-2012, 05:07 PMaway - #109
Dos-effect 20 heat pts20

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What do blacks have to do with it huh?
 12-26-2012, 05:09 PMaway - #110
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Originally Posted by nightmare
^^^^^ damn ni##a
Just had to show the "color blind" Decan what this countries history is in regards to blacks and guns since he obviously is on some bull####
 12-26-2012, 05:10 PMaway - #111
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Originally Posted by Decan45

I don't understand the bold. Run that by me again, if you would.

not sure how else to say it


you asked what black ppl have to do with it,and i asked since when has black ppl not have anything to do with it...wars were fought over us and laws were made with us in mind,so since when have we not been a major factor ?
 12-26-2012, 05:14 PMaway - #112
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or in your words since when has 'blacks have nothing to do with it ' ?
 12-26-2012, 05:15 PMonline - #113
Decan45 

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Originally Posted by Dos-effect
Just had to show the "color blind" Decan what this countries history is in regards to blacks and guns since he obviously is on some bull####
1.) There's a number of those laws you posted that target white people.

2.) None of those laws are still in effect today, to my knowledge.

3.) What's stopping you from walking into a gun store and purchasing an AR-15?
 12-26-2012, 05:15 PMaway - #114
nightmare 416 heat pts416

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Originally Posted by Decan45
Right... I didn't say the 2nd amendment itself. I said gun advocates support for it. Which IS explicitly what Micheal Moore is saying, and what you were corroborating earlier.



Sure, there's also at least 3 people in the world who like to spread #### on their toast in the morning. What's your point though? Do you really think there's a significant demographic, whom like Mr. Moore is suggesting, only cling to their right to bear arms because they fear minorities? Or do you think that demographic is a relatively minuscule number that he is merely exaggerating, for the sake of being controversial?
i definitely think that theres a sizable amount of people who feel that way given the history of this country and racially/culturally tense atmosphere that currently exists in this country in conjunction with personal experience/research, but thats my opinion/perspective and you will write it off as paranoia, so it is what it is

i simply dont agree with you on that point, but i have nothing in particular against you or your opinion at this point
 12-26-2012, 05:17 PMonline - #115
Decan45 

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Originally Posted by GST
not sure how else to say it


you asked what black ppl have to do with it,and i asked since when has black ppl not have anything to do with it...wars were fought over us and laws were made with us in mind,so since when have we not been a major factor ?
Seems like a moot point. This country has fought many more wars over other things, against other people. The question is, where is the relevance of black people in the current gun debate sparked by the Newtown, Connecticut massacre?
 12-26-2012, 05:24 PMaway - #116
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Originally Posted by Decan45



Sure, there's also at least 3 people in the world who like to spread #### on their toast in the morning. What's your point though? Do you really think there's a significant demographic, whom like Mr. Moore is suggesting, only cling to their right to bear arms because they fear minorities? Or do you think that demographic is a relatively minuscule number that he is merely exaggerating, for the sake of being controversial?
it's more than we know and more than you care to admit apparently..you're downplaying the situation like someone who couldn't relate and can only speak from guessing
 12-26-2012, 05:24 PMaway - #117
ill 800 61 heat pts61

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Originally Posted by nightmare


youre the one with an agenda
we arent talking about me.

what kind of half a$s response was that?

he manipulates facts and blatantly lies to achieve his political agenda and you are promoting it
 12-26-2012, 05:31 PMaway - #118
nightmare 416 heat pts416

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Originally Posted by ill 800
we arent talking about me.

what kind of half a$s response was that?

he manipulates facts and blatantly lies to achieve his political agenda and you are promoting it
you always talk BS, so i dont feel like putting together "full a$s" responses against you at this point
 12-26-2012, 05:38 PMaway - #119
GST 

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Originally Posted by Decan45
Seems like a moot point. This country has fought many more wars over other things, against other people. The question is, where is the relevance of black people in the current gun debate sparked by the Newtown, Connecticut massacre?

1. not on american soil this country hasn't


2.our relevance is in the gun laws that already exist
 12-26-2012, 05:38 PMaway - #120
Dos-effect 20 heat pts20

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Originally Posted by Decan45
1.) There's a number of those laws you posted that target white people.

2.) None of those laws are still in effect today, to my knowledge.

3.) What's stopping you from walking into a gun store and purchasing an AR-15?
1. Point out one that affected whites........please........and don't point out indentured servitude as that was not slavery......as whites had to work off debts and most willingly did so in order to get into America......they were never forced into slavery.

2. For 300 years they systematically prohibited blacks from owning guns to defend themselves while they went on to pretty much #### us over physically, financially, and mentally

3. Nothing is stopping me TODAY from walking into a gun store and purchasing a weapon, but that was never the question. You questioned Michael Moor's comments in and stated that whites in America are in fact not threatened by blacks and that the statement was ridiculous.........and I posted laws over a 300 year span that shows that whites were in fact scared ####less of blacks and went out of thier way to take guns away from us. Further more they pretty much enacted the same thing so many of them are f!ghting for today which is gun control.......they prohibited the purchase of guns because they did not want blacks to defend themselves.....basically giving them the leverage to abuse black Americans to no avail. But NOW more then ever they are screaming that they want to protect themselves against a tyrannical government......and they also want to take back America(what ever the #### that means) and restore it back to its values...........





So you tell me.........all the anti-government #### did not start until Obama got into office, gun sales splurged when Obama got elected, The Tea Party was originated after Obama got elected, Conservatives have vowed to see the country fail before they work with Obama,











Do I believe these same people are now purchasing guns because they are concerned about their "liberties" are being taking from them.........which is really just code talk for they think they are loosing their dominance in America..........yes I do....this element has NEVER disappeared from this country.........and if given the opportunity to envoke violence against not only the government(which apparently only consist of Obama) but blacks, jews, gays, muslims.....they absolutely would........

Last edited by Dos-effect; 12-26-2012 at 05:44 PM..
 
 


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